The Governor fires back...

The commissioners and state officials and worker-bees vastly outnumbered the press at Gov. Jim Douglas' noon event at the southbound Williston rest area on I-89.  Gov. Scissorhands [seen arriving followed by his trooper], was there in good spirits to officially launch free Wi-Fi for the laptop crowd at 7-8 Vermont interstate welcome centers.

Just me and a Ch. 5 crew: Reporter Mia Moran and new videographer Ama Asmah, fresh from Denver. I filed a story with WDEV's Rich Haskell regarding the free Wi-Fi. But got there early to "ambush" Jimbo regarding the letter to the Attorney General from the Windsor 13 [see item below], urging AG Bill Sorrell to ignore the Guv's dictum that henceforth, Sorrell prosecute first-time drug possession cases in Windsor County instead of letting Windsor County State's Attorney Bobby Sand handle them.

"Several thoughts,” said the Guv to Freyne Land.

"I don’t understand the separation-of-powers argument since law-enforcement agencies and the governor are both in the Executive Branch, so there’s no separation-of-powers question.

"Electoral process?" he asked rhetorically.

"I was elected, too. I took an oath of office and I have a responsibility to faithfully execute that office and adhere to the Constitution and follow all the laws that are enacted by the General Assembly of our state.

"I believe in and respect prosecutorial discretion. It’s an important part of our criminal justice process. But this is an extraordinary situation where that discretion has been abused.  And I think it’s important for me as the executive authority with law-enforcement agencies reporting to me to ensure that the laws of Vermont are carried out fairly.

"It’s simply unfair for someone in one county to be treated vastly different from someone somewhere else. There’s a perception of a double standard when a well-connected attorney and acting-judge is treated generously in a situation like this.  I believe I’m doing the right thing."

FREYNE:  And they also noted somewhat sarcastically that in "the worst week of violent crime in our history," the governor’s focusing on marijuana?

DOUGLAS: "We can have a legitimate discussion about the penalties for simple possession, as some legislators have suggested doing, but it’s the Legislature that makes the decision about what the appropriate penalties are, and if Mr. Sand, or anybody else, wants to propose some changes, he should take his case there."

He's good, isn't he?

Comments

[Fled Frintstone]

Yes, he is good. And I can't seem to find any fault with his thinking in this case.

BTW, here's a big PUKE for the new 7D web site design.

Gawd-awful oogly and painful to look at....

[jack]

"It’s simply unfair for someone in one county to be treated vastly different from someone somewhere else"

Why?

[odum]

He's only as "good" as the press lets him get away with being.

[good dem]

hate to say it folks, but Sand has most likely gone from "future Governor" to "the former prosecutor that let a judge skate when she got busted with two and a half pounds of pot." For any state's attorney, support from the law enforcement community is critical. It appears he has lost that support, big time. The Windsor County law enforcement types I spoke with earlier this week said that they felt he got it dead wrong, and did this b/c she is a judge and b/c he is on a crusade. If cops and police chiefs say to the voting public "we can't work with this guy", he's toast.

I commend him for bringing these issues to the public. But he went over the line with this one and blew it, big time. Easy pickins' for a determined challenger come next year.

[Peter Joes]

Hmmm - - seems the Gov. wasn't so concerned about enforcing laws when it comes to getting illegal aliens off of Vermont farms.

PJ

[MsRee]

Perhaps the governor and law enforcement should take a lesson from the Windsor County prosecutor whose record on violent crime is impeccable.

[row]

I'm going to switch from calling him Governor Scissorhands to calling him Governor Wide Bathroom Stance.

[JPC]

Good point PJ, Douglas certainly did drop the ball on the illegal aliens thing. ICE should have gone to that farm and rounded them up immediately, and Douglas should have condemmed anyone that employs illegals. The state should also threaten to with hold any state funds that are given out to farms that employ them. Disaster? Too bad if you are harboring illegals.

Jack, it is unfair, because one of the idealogues of the justice dept. is that it is blind with regards to the law. Sand, is letting his personal agenda dictate how he does his job and that goes against the basis of our judicial system. It is kind of link US attorneys that prosecute people based on political views.

MsRee, doing half you job very well does not excuse you from not doing the other half. He swore to uphold the law, and is breaking his oath. Disbar this man. As good dem pointed out if he has lost faith with the counties law enforcement he will never adequately be able to do his job.

[bigbadbrad]

Chortle. HMMMM, anyone hear that flushing sound? That's the sound of 50K+ to prosecute and $60k+ per annum to incarcerate these "offenders". Finger waggers, please start writing those checks, made out to the Vermont dept. of Corrections since your are SO outraged. Please put your money where your mouth is.

[jack]

There is no expectation of fairness across county lines or even within the same county. Read the day in court and see the variety of punishments handed out to DUI offenders. Prosecutors pick and choose their battles.

Besides, you can't argue unfairness with the existence of plea agreements in what appears to be the majority of cases across all counties. If you characterize Sand's actions as unfair, you must also characterize all plea agreements and all prosecutors who offer them in the same way.

It looks like Douglas' eState initiative is complete as we now have Wi-Fi in our rest areas.

[JPC]

plea agreements are unfair. Sand's actions are outrageous.

[bigbadbrad]

"Read the day in court and see the variety of punishments handed out to DUI offenders." Mitigating factors are not included, that accounts for some of that. BAC, previous track records on and on.

Yeah, lets get rid of plea agreements, that makes sense. Full stop, real smart.

[sandy ward]

Douglas wants the state to be fair? That's pretty funny considering his position on raising the drinking age. That republican want to send our 18 year old young people to war, but not let them legally drink a beer. He's such a dumbass.

Probably should have ordered the state police to bring weapons of mass destruction to Higher Ground last night for the 300 or so pot smokers attending the Dark Star Orchestra. High times!

[MsRee]

JPC, look out the window: the tide has turned. The Windsor county prosecutor's job includes using his own discretion and the people trust him to do that. If you don't like the way he does his job, why don't you try to win the trust of the people? {Laughing hard...)

[Jim Sock]

JPC was just elected "party planner" at his law firm. He's starting small and working his way up.

[bigbadbrad]

That wouldn't surprise me one bit. Another Neo-con Law school grad playing fast and loose with the truth for his own political purposes. What a shock!

[JPC]

MsRee, interestingly the quotes from law enforcement in that area don't support your statement. But then again I wouldn't expect a pothead to have the ambition or discipline to put down their brownies long enough to read.

Sandy, It is a good thing they didn't bust the place, you would be repeat offender and be spending the next few years at the 4C's. But then again short of shooting you in the head nothing will stop you from your dope.

GymSock, funny, but no.

BBB, I would think you'd have read enough of my posts to realize that I am not a neo-con, and had you been paying attention you would have learned that I am not a lawyer, law student, judge, or anyone remotely associated with the legal field. Just think what you might know if you listened to others once in a while.

"The short-term effects of marijuana can include problems with memory and learning; distorted perception; difficulty in thinking and problem solving; loss of coordination; and increased heart rate."

Memory, learning, distorted perception, difficulty in think and problem solving.....Compare those symptoms to some of these posts and tell me pot doesn't have any harmfull affects.

"Douglas wants the state to be fair? That's pretty funny considering his position on raising the drinking age."

Um....yeah no effects at all. I think that would fall under difficulty in in thinking. Every state has a 21 year old drinking age, so I guess he would be being fair? And, he isn't going to raise the drinking age, just not lower it, see it isn't the same thing. This is your brain 84 pounds of pot later.

[bigbadbrad]

I didn't say you where a lawyer, I said it wouldn't surprize me one bit. As for as being or not being a "Neo-Con" well, sorry Charlie. HAte to brake it to you, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are strong it is a duck!

[MsRee]

JPC, I am actually a great-grandmother who does not appreciate your sarcasm and bigotry. Ditto for your hatemongering. Before spreading more lies and deliberate misinformation, here's something you should read...

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/index.htm

[sandy ward]

Repeat offender status supposed to scare me? The existing felon label remains a life long punishment. But, just think, you'd get to pay for me to sit in jail and smoke pot...attractive women have the ability to gain pot/anything in jail, you dope.

[vermonter]

"JPC, I am actually a great-grandmother who does not appreciate your sarcasm and bigotry. Ditto for your hatemongering."

JPC is sracastic, sure. Just like the people who attack him on this blog. But I do not see that he engages in bigotry or hatemongering. I see much more hateful commentary coming from others here attacking JPC.

And, no, I have no idea who JPC is.

[Green Mountain 05401]

1. Jim Douglas supported legalization of marijuana in Vermont years ago. And he signed a medical marijuana bill in Vermont even though the federal government opposed it (local control matters?).

2. Now he tries to usurp the authority of the local, elected states attorney.

3. He tells law enforcement to bypass the local states attorney on marijuana (not crack, heroin, crystal meth, cocaine).

4. As Douglas knows, many people get court diversion for possession of cocaine or heroin to say nothing of marijuana. Many get court diversion for much more serious crimes such as burglaries, domestic violence or driving while intoxicated. For example, everyone in the drug court programs are in a court diversion program that will drop their criminal charges at the end of the process. All of them have done much more than possessed marijuana.

I can only conclude that this is political grandstanding and/or an attempt to punish the states attorney's courageous efforts to start a discussion about our current harmful and counterproductive approach to drugs (aka attempting to chill future attempts by elected officials to question the status quo on drug policy).

I'm disappointed that the Vermont attorney general and the other local attorneys general are not opposing this cynical, political power grab by the governor. Like Bush, Douglas is interfering with the independence of the attorney general system in a political way.

What's even worse, he is interfering in a particular case. This is not acceptable.

If voters don't like the local attorney general's decisions, they can vote him out. It's not Douglas' place to override the locally elected attorney general.

As far as the weak, pathetic argument that we need consistency in law enforcement from county to county on marijuana possession --who are they kidding?

First, hundreds of thousands of Vermonters have possessed marijuana and only a small fraction have been prosecuted. We could not possibly afford to enforce our marijuana possession law in anything more than a token, symbolic and unfair way (as we do now).

Second, our criminal justice system lacks consistency across the board. It's disingenuous to pretend that this case is a deviation from a consistent system resulting in such an aberration that the governor's intervention is warranted.

We don't have consistency between or among, police officers, states attorneys, assistant states attorneys, judges or probation officers. As a matter of fact, individual states attorneys and judges are not consistent from case to case with themselves! And marijuana use is commonly tolerated by many probation officers and judges who recognize this is not an area worthy of their focus. It's only worthy of Douglas' focus now because he's playing politics again.

Those of you who are saying that the woman in this case is only getting diversion because she is an attorney/judge have it backwards. Court diversion is commonly given to people who have committed much more serious offenses and who are much greater risks to the community. The woman in this case is getting attention from the governor because she is an attorney/judge and the governor spots an opportunity for publicity and political positioning to the detriment of an opponent. She is a person, and not a vehicle for the governor or anyone else to "send a message."

And notice, Attorney General Sorrel described the amount of pot in question as "enough to keep the average fraternity happy for a year" with some leftover. If he sees this case as so serious why is he joking about it? And are we supposed to fear the "average fraternity" as a threat to our public safety?

Hundreds of thousands of Vermonters and millions of Americans have possessed and smoked marijuana without seriously harming themselves or anyone else. Yet sadly a few have their lives destroyed by criminal prosecution.

I don't use marijuana or any other drug except alcohol in moderation. This isn't "my fight" in that sense. But I do pay taxes, and I do care about the people around me who are hurt by the Jim Douglas's of the world.

[bloghog]

Thanks for cutting and pasting this exact same long posting here and also on the BFP blog at 11:43 last night under the topic "Less Random, More Filling" under the moniker "Anonymous."

[JPC]

GM05401,

Since Douglas is refering all cases to a democratic Attorney General and not a republican I don't really see how you can characterize this as a political power grab. It is nothing of the sort, he is trying to keep some integrity in the judicial system. Please show me where anyone ever caught with 2.5 pounds of pot, AND 32 plants was given diversion.

Secondly, he is NOT going after a particular case, it is in response to a particular case. I have yet to hear where he wants this case retried.

And, while our criminal justice system may be somewhat inconsistant, this case isn't just a little out of line, it's in a whole different area code. Further diversion is not that common, WCAX reported that from records 2 in 200 cases of similar but not as extreme cases were sent to diversion. That's 1% far from common.

Sure hundreds of thousands of people smoke pot without hurting anyone, but there are a significant portion that do.

MsRee, I realize that at your age living where you do you are probably a grandmother. I also realize that if my grandmother had a myspace page that looked like yours I would be embarassed, appalled, and seriously consider not allowing my children to have contact with you, at least not without supervision. Sacarastic yes, bigot, hatemonger, well that is your opinion and frankly I believe it is unfounded. It is interesting that those terms are used to describe me when I have done little but try to advocate following the law. Most posters on this particular thread seem to think that they need only follow a law if it follows their belief.

BBB, look up neo-con and explain to me how you feel I fit in. I am hardly even a true republican as I believe in pro-choice, and have no religous affiliation.

[nobody]

"It’s simply unfair for someone in one county to be treated vastly different from someone somewhere else"

I can’t agree more with this statement because he's 100% right. If this was any other guy off the street he would already be behind bars. Just because it’s a judge that has some power and is an important figure its all okay and she is now being let off with just diversion...

[Marine Of Ages]

Lets put it this way. People may have gotten diversion for more serious crimes, however, have you ever noticed they they aren't in this state? To make it more simple, I serve my country, and it doesn't matter to me if people prefer to take thier freedom and way of life for granted. It matters not. The only thing that matters is that Americans have the opportunity to take it for granted. We just can't pick and choose to follow which ever law we want and overlook what ever law we dislike. If you want Marijuana legalised, then go to the legislative branch, and fight it.

Everybody knows, although they would not like to admit it, that the average joe in just about every corner of this great country, would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law for a felony amount of pot. This judge however was given a slap on the wrist because the prosecutor was actually "Pro-marijuana" and gave her a punishment that turns this whole entire country into nothing more than a joke.

What good is our law system if not even our own judges abide by it? Personally I think the governor is right about this one. It should be fair either way. I do my job to the best of my ability and i would expect nothing less from someone who wears a blue or white collar to do their best at their own job. The men and women in uniform make it so that they can do their jobs. I, among thousands of other soldiers would be rather upset if we were fighting for a lawless country. Morals therof of destroyed and revalations only grows closer.

So if you personally like pot, and see no harm in it, change the law. You have the power so to speak.

However, i do see the sides of the other half aswell. The government will never legallise anything they can't collect tax on. Such as why they call it. "Uncontrolled substance" They can't control it, so why should you? I agree that the government is getting to big for its breeches. But we would be under a much more rutheless rule if our government had no control.

So if it is illegal for the everage joe to grow pot. Then it is just as illegal for a judge to grow aswell.

"One sin is just as bad as the next. Gossip is just as bad as murder."

[sandy ward]

And, we're supposed to expect a different opinion from a pro war marine? Iraq and possibly Iran are the places you'd be able to earn more metals to polish.

[Peter Joes]

According to JPC, "Sure hundreds of thousands of people smoke pot without hurting anyone, but there are a significant portion that do."

I believe the number is in the millions, not hundreds of thousands that use M and where exactly do we find the "significant portion that do" hurt someone? I have yet to learn of anyone harmed by someone else's use of marijuana. This is in stark contrast to those hurt by the legal use of drugs like alcohol.

And to our marine who says, "We just can't pick and choose to follow which ever law we want and overlook what ever law we dislike. If you want Marijuana legalised, then go to the legislative branch, and fight it." Atty. General Sorrel has said that marijuana is already de-criminalized in terms of how it is treated by law enforcement and the courts for small amounts of M. Selective enforcement of the laws is bad for all.

Let's face it, everyone that has any real knowledge of the M drug knows that it is relatively innocuous in terms of its medical harm or the damage to society when compared to other, legal drugs.

That is why Sorrel, clearly no friend of M has said the comments that he did and why Sands takes the position he does. It is also the reason why Douglas once voted in favor of decriminalization. The laws against M bear no relation to the drugs harm to individuals or society.

So, this bunch of people clearly thinks that possession of a small amount of M is no cause for concern. So where do they get it? In this case we have someone caught with a relatively large amount. The implication is that she must have had it for more people that herself. There was no evidence of other drugs, or of dealing the drug for $$, and I am sure that they would have looked.

If possession of a small amount is ok according to Sorrel, Douglas, and others why should taxpayers have to incarcerate someone for possession of a greater amount?

Sure the legislature should deal with the issue. But I think Douglas is smart enough to know that so many people have been so brainwashed with misinformation about the drug that his stand will get him votes rather than cost him some.

PJ

[bigbadbrad]

"Sure hundreds of thousands of people smoke pot without hurting anyone, but there are a significant portion that do." - Name ONE! And not someone who is cross addicted to heavy drugs or booze.

Meanwhile our jails and prisons are full of people who commited serious crime while under the influence of booze and HARD drugs.

and actually the U.S. numbers on weed use are 20 million per year and 11 regular users.

Sorry Partner, Another one of your arguements is D.O.A.

[sandy ward]

Even though there has been an on going massive campaign of misinformation about marijuana, this is Vermont. We are the 'highest' per capita use of marijuana in the country and it's going to hurt Douglas in his re-election effort.

The judgeship was over when she was caught...she's a nobody. I'm just glad that Sand has balls and took the opportunity to display them to the rest of the State's Attorneys.

Robert Sand for Governor.

[MsRee]

JPC... sorry you became so offended while conducting a background search on me. Was it my use of a 'religious' quote...

FOR WE WRESTLE NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD, BUT AGAINST PRINCIPALITIES, AGAINST POWERS, AGAINST THE RULERS OF THE DARKNESS OF THIS WORLD, AGAINST SPIRITUAL WICKEDNESS IN HIGH PLACES. (Ephesians 6:12)

or posting the following video that got your skivvies all in a knot?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0lYot0zbYw

[sandy ward]

MsRee, really, really, really, really great video! Glad you're here cuz it's a whole lot of fun to play those wannabe players.

[JPC]

"Let's face it, everyone that has any real knowledge of the M drug knows that it is relatively innocuous in terms of its medical harm or the damage to society when compared to other, legal drugs."

So I guess anybody who believes in upholding all of our laws are just too stupid to realize that illegal substances are not bad for you. Listen you guys are so intent on your legalization of marijuana that you have missed the point, which is our laws have to be followed, not the ones you like but all of them. IF you aren't willing to follow them you better be prepared to pay the price. And, our criminal justice systems must have some consistency. Yes there is variation, and the difference between getting 60 hours community service and getting 80 hours is not the same as getting months in jail and serving no time at all.

Sandy, yeah your really "playing" me.

BBB, my argument is DOA, you asked for an example and once again assuming, that I could not provide one. Jumping the gun their "partner."

" Acute marijuana use was significantly associated with car crash
injury, after controlling for the confounders age, gender, ethnicity, education
level, passenger carriage, driving exposure and time of day (OR 3.9, 95% CI
1.2–12.9)."

This from the peer reviewed scientific journal

Addiction, 100 , 605–611

Good call Brad.

[bigbadbrad]

blah blah, Brad.

Chorlte. Ok, partner. Whatever you say. Your sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo right, weed is the most dangerous thing on the planet, ever. This ONE case (which means absolutely nothing. Prove it!)is the linchpin that keeps the fabric of the universe from tearing unsunder. Not the millions of people incarcerated for crimes committed under the influence of booze or HARD drugs. Thank you for setting us all straight from on high. Thank you for lower yourself down to pick the rest of us unwashed up to your lofty highs, oh great one.
ONE Case. Please, if you and the rest of the finger-wagging thought police are ready, willing and able to pony up ALL the dough needed to Prosecute ALL the weed prohabition cases, have at it. OTHER wise, for the love of mike, will you stop about this! Stop beating this dead horse. She ain't gettin' back up.
You win! Your absolutly right about everything all the time from the second you popped out, 'til now, till the last time you draw breath. Don't ever consider another viewpoint or concede even the tiniest concession ever, ever,ever.

[MsRee]

The governor and attorney general are concerned about "messages" sent to young people?

From the Youth Risk Survey (2004)

"...providing striking evidence that regulation of adult use is more effective than prohibition in preventing teen substance use"

http://www.stopteenuse.com/reference/index.html

[JPC]

Brad you asked for one example, "name one!" I did, it certainly isn't the only one, just the one that I found with a 30 second google search, and one that is from a scientific study. I am sure I could come up with a few thousand more.

[bigbadbrad]

I highly doubt it. Why don't you spend your time more effectively and look into the "significant portion" (also known as the VAST MAJORITY)of people in the joint who are there because of crimes committed under the influence of booze or hard drugs or because of crimes to support their hard drug habits. Then tell me how much it costs to prosecute and incarcerate weed prohabition caes to the full extent of the law. Also, when your done with your self-rightous finger wagging, Make you check out to "Vermont state dept of corrections" to cover these weed prohabition cases that you have such a chubby to prosecute. Thanks alot.

[sandy ward]

The point is she was arrested and is in the diversion program, not shot in the head as you and your governor would prefer.

I play when you blog as anonymous posters like, marine of ages, blog hog and nobody to list a few. Can't justify the war against marijuana Vermonter has stayed out of this, why? But, have noticed that BBB is always ready for your argument...you're just not that bright...send for MadDog, please.

Put up a link to prove the 'one case' instead of just listing your chatter. The wrong way drunk resulting in death over the weekend should have been using marijuana instead of alcohol.

How'd you like the video?

[Marine Of Ages]

"And, we're supposed to expect a different opinion from a pro war marine? Iraq and possibly Iran are the places you'd be able to earn more metals to polish."

I don't recall mentioning anything about being pro-war... But assume what you please sandy. I just follow orders, and nothing less. I just pray to God that i never have to earn a single one of those metals. Because that would be just another trip down memory lane of sitting and rotting inside a sand pit while my buddies are being shot.

Allow us to put it in simpler terms for you sandy. So you may understand. Do as you are told, and follow the laws, and if you don't like it, change it. I am pretty sure there are alot out there that do not appreciate the rude remarks from some one who can't back up their evidence, let alone position. Have a nice day. :D

[JPC]

BBB, try reading my post and you will see that i have never argued about booze, the cost of prosecutine, etc ,etc etc. My points have been made pretty clear, and your refuse to address them. Instead you argue with no one. Have fun with that. Bully's usually end up alone anyways.

Sandy, I'm not that bright??? Have you read your own posts? Your incoherent ramblings make it extremely hard to understand what you are trying to say. Is it only pot you smoke??? Put up a link to my one case? I posted a link to an entire friggin study......sweet jesus lady lay off the weed.

Marine of Ages, thank you for putting the point into a simple phrase that all might understand. THough I doubt it. Prepare for the insults to start coming your way.

[bigbadbrad]

You're funny. "Bully", that's rich. Remember these unsolicited gems?:

"BBB, what is the corrections budget in RI?"

" 'I don't smoke weed anymore, but this irks me.'

So......That explains a lot, your inability to focus, you irrational rants, etc. Kids, this is your brain after you've used drugs."

"plea agreements are unfair. Sand's actions are outrageous."

You are just so full of stuff and nonsense.

The point you've missed and continued to miss (and this is the end of it, don't bother responding) is that weed prohabition is a complete waste of time and money that doesn't accomplish anything. If you enjoy chasing your tail like an unbalanced border collie, by all means, have at it. Just don't demand that the rest of us foot the bill for such a folly. Good luck with that.

Lastly, You say you never argued the cost of prosecution, yet have not expounded on your plan to PAY for those full-blown prosecutions (with now plea deals, to the full extent of the law). Again I say to you, get out your checkbook, don't ask the rest of us to foot the bill for your hang-ups.

[JPC]

Ah see Brad there in lies the beauty of actually prosecuting crimes. In theory actually punishing people for their crimes instead of giving them a few weeks of community service might, just might serve to deter them from recommitting crimes. In the long run reducing crime, reducing the amount of cases needing to be prosecuted. I know it is idealistic of me to expect our gov't to enforce the laws they write, but what the hey.

Great analogy to the border collie, I got one and that is funny. No matter what I say about you that is funny.

[bigbadbrad]

"I know it is idealistic of me to expect our gov't to enforce the laws they write"
When gov't's stop passing dumb law, that will be that much easier and more better. What you call crime, I call private ADULT indulgence. Don't like weed, don't smoke it, let's just all of us mind our own business like people did for centuries in this country in regards to this product.

I'd like Burlington to make a much more concerted effort to punish people who park in hadicapped zones, but that doesn't seem to be high on the list. Seems to me to be a much more anti-social and narcissistic crime to me than someone who tokes up in the privicy of their own home.

[sandy ward]

Hey marine...Yes, Sir! You said blow was a figure of speach! Sir!

You guys are too funny.

[vermonter]

I don't see any rational basis to assume that driving under the influence of alcohol is bad but driving high is not. As a society, we have studied the effects of alcohol and driving, and there is a lot of data. It is illegal and it should be illegal because we know it can be deadly.

But our law enforcement system doesn't routinely test pulled-over drivers for the presence of cannabis in their systems. Maybe if we did, we'd find that it's just as bad to drive while high as it is to drive while drunk.

[MsRee]

I agree with you, Vermonter. Responsible adult consumers of alcohol or marijuana do not drive vehicles and endanger others. Irresponsible users do. But that doesn't mean we should prohibit alcohol across the board because some serial drunk driver goes the wrong way on the Interstate and kills someone. It means that penalties should be stiff for that offense. Based on a national average, about ten percent of Vermont adults use marijuana, probably including some of the nicest and most responsible people you know. The only way to tell is by extracting hair or bodily fluids for testing. The problem with testing for marijuana on the road is that if your doctor smoked a joint tonight, s/he would still test positive for THC a week from now. I do agree with you that it is stupid and irresponsible to drive under the influence.

[sandy ward]

Well, if it thinks like the DEA, posts like the DEA and conducts background checks like the DEA...the DEA is working for the Governor, JPC... or is that John?

[Marine Of Ages]

Ahahahahaha! Very funny brad. In marine corps boot camp your teeth would have been removed from your head if you barked that load of junk at a drill instructor. But more to the point, after this final input. There is a such thing as life in prison. And it seems that the recitivism rate int his state is almost nothing. But then again, how many people actually get caught growing weed? It only makes you wonder. So say the government wants to find out...

Then they run into things like the big brother complex. Or the bush scandal. So putting it plainly there is a big stand off on both parts of crime and punishment. The ceasefire only goes so far.

My hands are washed. Have a nice day. :D

[bigbadbrad]

Vermonter, I don't think that is the case. I'm not going to argue that driving Inebriated on any substance with reflex inhabitive qualities, legal or illegal. Sleep medications, seditives, depressants, etc. I don't think weed has anywhere near the adverse effect on reflex time and driving ability that several drinks do. You'd have to smoke ALOT of weed. That being said, you make a valid point about any sort of driving under the influence.

[bigbadbrad]

Marine, what the heck are you talking about? I don't remember addressing anything you said, so I'm not sure exactly what you're taking offense at. Sorry, Your last post made absolutely no sense. FYI, I made it through boot camp and my tour with all my choppers, thanks.

[JPC]

Good gawd Sandy did you know that pot causes paranoia. Let's try to think logically for one minute. Putting aside the fact that my name was posted here and my job at one point, my name is not John, and if I worked for the DEA I would have already arrested you. You have repeatedly admitted your drug use. Since I haven't arrested you, any logical person would have come to the conclusion that I am not DEA. In fact, if you weren't so high all the time, you may have noticed that the point I have been trying to make is that consumption, cultivation, possesion of marijuana is a crime, ergo it needs to be enforced as a crime. I personally have seen the effects of pot use and think that it is not a harmless drug, but to each their own, as long as it is legal. I am not arguing whether or not it should be legal, but since it isn't Sand blew it.

[sandy ward]

Hey Mr. Campbell from the DEA, sir, the last time I blogged about an outstanding warrant and you conducted a background check on me, I was arrested.

You can't send the state police to arrest me now because the citizens of Vermont would run your DEA ass out of this state and your little marine friend, too.

Come on, I have about 1/2 an ounce, chicken shit!

[JPC]

Sandy go see a pychiatrist before it is too late. Again a perfect example of the effects of smoking a harmless drug. coo coo

[MsRee]

Hey JPC, invest in spell-check before it's too late.

[JPC]

Sorry to offend ewe, sea I got a spell checker, butt it doesn't appear two work rite. Thanks four pointing out that eye am a pore speller. Then again, I would rather suck at spelling and be able to think logically, then to be reel good at spelling and only be able to vomit back the garbage that has been fed too me.

[MsRee]

"Anyone concerned about the failure of our $69 billion-a-year War on Drugs should watch this 12-minute program. You will meet front line, ranking police officers who give us a devastating report on why it cannot work. It is a must-see for any journalist or public official dealing with this issue."-- Walter Cronkite

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3291174865453920311&q=LEAP&total=13659&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

[Peter Joes]

"vermonter" says, "I don't see any rational basis to assume that driving under the influence of alcohol is bad but driving high is not."

Whatsamatter - - haven't you heard that joke that goes, "What's the difference between the way someone high on marijuana and someone drunk on alcohol handles a stop sign?

Answer

The person drunk will just hit the gas and blow through the stop sign. The person high on marijuana will stop and wait for the sign to turn green."

While this is just a joke and neither is acceptable, there is a qualitative difference and yes there have been studies that I have seen that compares the dangers of driving drunk to driving under the influence of M.

Maybe if we weren't spending so much money foolishly on the war on drugs and jailing people for marijuana offenses we could afford to incarcerate people that really need it like the drunk guy that just killed someone on I-89.

PJ

[sandy ward]

At least I'm not a clucker.

And, real bright idea for your republican governor to keep you posting about this issue...I'm good to go as long as you are.

Robert Sand for Governor!

[my_brain_is_fried]

"At least I'm not a clucker.
And, real bright idea for your republican governor to keep you posting about this issue...I'm good to go as long as you are.
Robert Sand for Governor!"

Another irrational posting.

[sandy ward]

Love your comments.

Robert Sand for Governor.

[sandy ward]

For the cop and his grunt:

'The US is exporting a worldwide snitch state supervised by American intelligence agencies and the military.'

'The UN's International Narcotics Control Board believes that anti-drug treaties require criminal prosecution of people who advocate drug law reform.'

'The US and UN are dialed-in to a global satellite system capable of monitoring all emails, phone calls and faxes.'

Jim Redden's book, Snitch Culture, lists many shocking examples of the DEA, CIA and FBI making sweetheart deals with murderers, rapists, child molesters and other swine.

[where's_the_bong?]

Another on-point posting by the paranoid pothead.

[sandy ward]

The bong is in hand enough to be onto you and your little marine friend, Mr. Campbell, from the DEA, Sir. Your 30 year drug war might work if
you keep pushing your propaganda drug policies down Vermont's throat, insist republican Douglas continue to ignore the worse week of violence in our history and just go for the pot...Yup, you're my kinda guys...the kind my Mom would call a real SOB.

[where's_the_bong?]

I believe the worst week of violence in Vermont's and the U.S.'s history occurred during the Civil War.

What week are you thinking of in your pot-induced world?

[sandy ward]

The week of 5 murders as mentioned in this particular blog, read Freyne's words above.

Just how many DEA agents do you have patrolling single sites?

[jpc]

Sandy, your the kinda gal that anyone would call a lunatic. First off as I have stated, I am not a cop. If I was you would be in jail right now. As for your list of quotes...I have no idea what your point is. You may want to write stuff out and read it back to yourself before you post to see if it actually makes any sense whatsoever.

[sandy ward]

So, you don't want to make a deal? Give the marine to me and I'll shut up...offer valid for 24 hours, Sir.

[my_brain_is_fried]

"So, you don't want to make a deal? Give the marine to me and I'll shut up...offer valid for 24 hours, Sir."

I'm sure this comment means something. Is there a translator in the house who can translate from stoned to normal?

[jpc]

Sandy, are you sure it's just pot you smoke? You should become the spoksman for Sand's run for Gov. And please tell everyone that you are an example of the effects of pot. Seriously, you need to lay off the reefer and start taking your meds.

[sandy ward]

Actually, I don't take any rx drugs, pot seems to be keeping me healthy.

Perhaps you're unaware that your agents play the same games on other sites that you play here?

The people of the Northeast Kingdom need to be made aware that there is a DEA agent living among them in Sutton.

[where's_the_bong?]

"The people of the Northeast Kingdom need to be made aware that there is a DEA agent living among them in Sutton."

The people of Vermont need to be made aware that there is a toked out nut living among them.

[JPC]

"Actually, I don't take any rx drugs, pot seems to be keeping me healthy."

Seems that way to you maybe, in your drug induced haze, but the to the rest of us it is just the opposite. I have never had an issue with people smoking pot, other then it is illegal, but listening to your incoherent paranoid rambling's makes me want to launch an all out campaign to save the youth of this state from ending up like you.

[sandy ward]

Please review the rules of engagement with your DEA agents:

1. This is war.
2. Cops are not the only ones who sleep with their targets.
3. Never fall in love with your mark.

Please tell your Sutton DEA agent I said 'too bad'...he will know what it means.

[JPC]

I doubt anyone knows what it means including you.

[Huh?]

She is getting more bizarre by the moment.